Gold coins

[Paint Your Wagon]

You may have noticed that the cross on top of the crown is crooked
Somebody said the that the artist ran out of space and bent it ( very unlikely)
Somebody said that the crown was thrown at the emperor by somebody angry (unlikely)
The most likely version is that the crown was buried in a hurry during a war and the cross got bent

Anyway here is the Standing emperor of the Austrian Hungarian empire with globe and sceptor etc
Frans Joseph

[scottishmoney]

The Hungarian crown is the Crown of St. Stephen, a 10th century Hungarian King that I believe was the king that Christianised Hungary.  Somehow in history the Crown must have gotten kicked around a bit, in reality it has, being the pawn of whomever captures it.  Curiously it ended up in the USA after WWII and became a contentious object for sometime before it was sent back to Hungary in 1978.  It is purported to be the oldest crown in existence(I believe Phillip of Greece's is, father of Alexander III the Great)

[Paint Your Wagon]

The Hungarian crown is the Crown of St. Stephen, a 10th century Hungarian King that I believe was the king that Christianised Hungary.  Somehow in history the Crown must have gotten kicked around a bit, in reality it has, being the pawn of whomever captures it.  Curiously it ended up in the USA after WWII and became a contentious object for sometime before it was sent back to Hungary in 1978.  It is purported to be the oldest crown in existence(I believe Phillip of Greece's is, father of Alexander III the Great)

I wonder if after a hundred years the cross is still bent or somebody could not resist putting it upright again

[scottishmoney]

Problem is, that it has been bent so long, and the Hungarians are used to it being bent, that if someone straightened it out on the sly, that it would be noticed.

It is even bent on coins from Hungary from the 19th century, and many Hungarian banknotes on up to the current day.

[Paint Your Wagon]

well their independance is 1849

http://www.h-net.org/~habsweb/sourcetexts/hungind.html

It is said the cross was bent went the emperor had to flee the palace before the independance
So yes it looks like it was bent prior to 1849
I was thinking if the crown went to the US that somebody over there had not resisted straightening the cross
I have not seen the crown recently

During my visit to Budapest I was more into churches and bridges etc

[scottishmoney]

Hungary was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire from the 16th century on up to 1918 when the Empire was dissolved into parts of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Jugoslavia, Hungary, part of Romania, part of what is now Ukraine, and Austria of course.  There was an independence movement that did indeed begin in 1848 under Kossuth Lajos, but that movement did not succeed until 1918.  During that time the crown was in the possession of the imperial government of Austria-Hungary. 

The crown was spirited out apparently by Admiral Horthy's associates at the conclusion of WWII, Horthy had been arrested and taken to Germany by the Nazi's for failing to be subservient to the Aryan masters, and there was a fear that the crown would end up in the hands of the Soviets when the war ended.  Afterwards, Hungary petitioned repeatedly for the return of the crown, but the Americans refused as they did not believe the government in Budapest was legitimate, even though they recognized the country diplomatically.  In 1978 US President Jimmy Carter initiated the return of the crown to Hungary.  Then it was only a symbol of Hungary's history, but now it is again prominently on the Hungarian coat of arms once more with the demise of the socialist fools.

[Paint Your Wagon]

You forgot Dracula's Pensylvania 

[scottishmoney]

Think of all the coins and banknotes you could collect with the crooked cross crown(say that a few times fast)

[Paint Your Wagon]

Think of all the coins and banknotes you could collect with the crooked cross crown(say that a few times fast)

Well I would start with that 31 kilogram Wiener Philharmoniker gold "coin" 
I would have the mantle of my chimney reinforced and pop it up there casual like 

[scottishmoney]

I think Kilo coins are cute, I would like one if I didn't have to pay so bleeping much over melt for it.  I think the better option are the 10 oz bars that the Austrian mint just starting minting, which are fully exchangeable for 1 oz bars.  One of the big problems with anything over a 1 oz bar has been overall acceptability by many different people.  The Kilo coins are only minted usually in either China or Australia, and they are just way too much above AGW for my tastes.

[Paint Your Wagon]

In the present conditions with gold shooting up like a rocket I finished several want to get coins in a hurry
In Novembre I got the last three pieces to complete my Lunar gold series ( the only series that is complete) and that I wanted complete

In Decembre I got two coins yet to arrive one is the Liberty storming the Bastille from Delacroix

There are very few coins left to tempt me La Maya Desnuda from Goya is one of them
Quiero comprar esta mucher 
Unfortunately I allways find La Maya Vestida 

I think from now on it is back to the exchange agent to buy lucky angels at melt 

Unfortunately for me it looks like stupid paper goldshares will be the best deal for the next 4 years 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Before my bed time I can jpeg the 100 Austrian Kronen
Butt ugly if you ask me but at MS63 with slide and at melt I bought it 20 years ago 

[scottishmoney]

The only French gold I have owned were the Mariannes, I want some more to add to the Vrenellis and Helvetias at some time in the future.  But as you note, I am going to have to think about letting some of the other stuff before I get these at these prices as gold is now at €583.62/oz.  I never really got into the current MDP stuff from France, but I do have some sets of 100FF in silver, with La Jacolande etc. on them.

I used to have all the LMU gold from all the LMU countries, except Poland and Romania.  It was an interesting concept and worked for quite some time until WWI intervened.

[Paint Your Wagon]

You may realise I have been avoiding France sofar on my European journey of goldcoins at melt or at reasonable prices
There are two reasons : first about four years ago I got some kind of type set on 20 francs and second I have been buying all Monnaie de Paris pieces I fancy which went close to gold for 4 years now and since Monnaie de Paris cranks out enormous amount of coins like 64 designs in 2007 no collector is keeping up and pickings are often possible to the patient at melt price

The Marianne Rooster type has been restruck so many times it is like the Vrenelli just a piece of gold
But Lucky angels still sell at melt with Belgian exchange agents and I got at least one which is MS66 for melt
by convention the coins have to be XF or better or be remelted 

[Paint Your Wagon]

Now my nomination for the most ugly coin ever
Rarely sold at or above melt ( Sold continuously below melt )
Even exchange agents dislike the piece
Wafer thin and you have to hammer it in a 2x2 since it is 40 mm and the largest cutout is 39 mm
4 Dukaten Franz Joseph 1915       13.768 gram gold
13.9636gram times  0.986 purity
I suspect the molds are very badly repolished
I know the grading system does not substract point for die polishing lines but I do so I grade it at MS62